who breaks in first???? - penciler vs. inker Options

[johnson]

Who do you think has a better chance of getting in the biz first? They both require talent and personal uniqueness. Who will a company be likely to say yes to first?

[Tim Tilley]

Pencilers.

Writer's have a tough time breaking in, especially with the top writer getting all the work. Colorist are next, inkers after that, and then writers are at the bottom. Editors like to see what the talent is.. so it's all visual.

[John Wilson]

Pencilers...without a doubt

[vector]

I'd say penciler, but what do I know, I haven't had much luck breaking in yet. Good question Johnson

[Psychomud]

I'd say penciler, but what do I know, I haven't had much luck breaking in yet. Good question Johnson

I dunno bro - I think you will do well at Chicago-con.

I'll contact my ole mafia types to strongarm some publishers for ya and get you dat gig - ya hear!

I dunno who is doing pro work on this board - but my money is on YOU next - but don't let it goto your head and do't forget us guys when you are doing 6 books a month and driving round in your H3 hummer! You stars all all the same! Bastiches!

(LOL - OMG I shouldn't post online at 4am Korea time!)

[vector]

I'd say penciler, but what do I know, I haven't had much luck breaking in yet. Good question Johnson

I dunno bro - I think you will do well at Chicago-con.

I'll contact my ole mafia types to strongarm some publishers for ya and get you dat gig - ya hear!

I dunno who is doing pro work on this board - but my money is on YOU next - but don't let it goto your head and do't forget us guys when you are doing 6 books a month and driving round in your H3 hummer! You stars all all the same! Bastiches!

(LOL - OMG I shouldn't post online at 4am Korea time!)

Thanks for the up lifting words Jeff, But truthfully I'm far from the quality editors are looking for. I had a editor from marvel write me awhile back and said you have to look at it this way" you have pro's already in the business going for the same job you want, and there are out of work pro's going for the same job you want. You've got to be better than all of them! That's reality for me! So I'll keep plugging away until I am good enough!We all should!!

Steve

[Psychomud]

Keep yer chin up bro!

I would have mentioned many folks here that *I* think could be pros - but in the end - I dunno who here is a pro and who is not.

Well, the only pros that i am aware of on his forun are Bill Nickos and Robert Hickey - and I only know that cause I have their published works in my hands.

If you get work and it gets published - I think that makes you a pro right? Even if you self-publish?

Anyway - i encourage everyone here to strive to do their best work and get into the industry (if you are not already in).

(See this is why I'm an aspiring penciller and not an editor - I don't know sqwat! Heheheh!)

[Anthony Hochrein]

Thanks for the up lifting words Jeff, But truthfully I'm far from the quality editors are looking for. I had a editor from marvel write me awhile back and said you have to look at it this way" you have pro's already in the business going for the same job you want, and there are out of work pro's going for the same job you want. You've got to be better than all of them! That's reality for me! So I'll keep plugging away until I am good enough!We all should!!

Steve

It's always great to be smacked in the face with reality, isn't it? It keeps us humble and makes us work ten times as hard!
As I've got to keep on drawing and drawing and drawing and remember not to be a legend in my own mind!

[Tim Tilley]

If it were hollywood you could get the word out you work for scale.
Then blam you're in. Too bad that isn't the case here.

[johnson]

Okay how many people on these boards are trying to break in as individuals?
I keep reading in submission guidlines and hearing in interviews that creative teams get in faster. Or at least they prefer to hire teams so they don't have to put them together themselves. Naturally hearing that I assembled a team of my own and we're all working together to get in the biz. I'm just curious who else is thinking the same thing?

[Anthony Hochrein]

Well, it was my writer's idea to get our material together and pitch it to Image. He expects me to go farther since I can always do different kinds of work as an artist. Buzz does advertising besides his comic art.
Can't writer's hustle in advertising, also? Or animation or some other such thing?

[PaperSpirit]

Okay how many people on these boards are trying to break in as individuals?
I keep reading in submission guidlines and hearing in interviews that creative teams get in faster. Or at least they prefer to hire teams so they don't have to put them together themselves. Naturally hearing that I assembled a team of my own and we're all working together to get in the biz. I'm just curious who else is thinking the same thing?

I kinda had the same idea. Schleping my 'folio around wasn't really doing any good as everybody loved my work but never enough to hire me, so I hooked up with a writer to do a webcomic to do 3 things--
1) use it as an online 'folio to showcase my work.
2) to FORCE me to do alot of work and just keep my quality progressing until I reach pro level art.
3) so when I DO go to a con and an editor loves my work I can give him the web address and tell him that I have kept on schedule for a year (or however long) and use it to prove that, not only am I good, but consistent and reliable as well.

I'm hoping that if I can prove that I'm good as well as consistent and reliable to editors, the might give me a higher consideration.

That's the plan, anyway. We'll see.

~e.

[Jimmy T]

all chances for work are equal,

I have had all kinds of paid offers, but only accept specific styles I like to do, because I can.

But if you are a good...really good you will get work. If you don't then you are not good enough in the style they want.

Doesn't mean you are bad, just not what they want, or maybe you are bad, in that case ask for serious crits and take them on the chin. If you ever find yourself defending your work, you should be looking for work in another field.

A good rule of thumb is to be honest with yourself. If someone asks why you wrote this or that a certain way, or drew or inked this a certain way, you didn't do the job right.

It is up to you to present work that people will understand in a second. If they don't then you are not ready.

I have heard so many people say that they do things a certain way, and if you don't get it, it must be you.

Those are the ones that live a lonely life making excuses for bad work and poor deportment.

So when showcasing your stuff take the extra time to show your best. and to take editor critiques with a smile and say, "You know I just learned something, thank You.".

Then change what you did and show that you are someone who is paying attention, and not lazy. Editors have memories and friends. If you go back or to another editor with crap that was rejected already by one editor, you will further their reason to steer clear of you. If you go back and fix it, then you go to front of the line for having a serious work ethic they can rely on.

Now I know nobody here does it, but at the Baltimore comic con we saw a lot of aspiring artists, and I specialize in inking new artists I like because I feel like I am helping them to get further.

But i see these guys with the IQ of a lugnut bring some bad art and then after you crit it they say yeah, I knew that but what about the rest. Or that was the look I was going for.

If bad was what they were going for, wy have crits?????

Anyway this is just common sense. If you excel at what you want to do and have a good demeaner, you can get work. If you don't get work then you are not there yet, so work harder. 100% is not good enough 'til you get the job.

I know you guys do this but this board is a wonderful board to learn and hone skills. Iknow a few of you and you are sooooo close.

One writes a story and sets a scene, another pencils and another inks and still anothers colors.

So you guys keep it up here and soon people will be working for you.

I still don't ink as well as I would like, but that is the nature of us, to always be constantly learning from each other.

So good luck, and don't give up, get better.

Oh Yeah and vote for your favorite inkers at the inkwell awards,
http://www.inkwellawards.com



Jimmy

[Mark Topolski]

Way back when (90's) I actually received jobs as an inker, never a penciler, just wasn't there with my stuff. But I also think that the industry was different because there was so many new guys getting in and the industry just seemed so damn huge at the time.

Now, I wouldn't have a clue, I am guessing the competition is tougher and like most of us know there are really only so many jobs out there. And if you're getting one, then someone else won't be... I learned a long time ago that this is a very tough business, emotionally and physically, but thats the nature of the beast.

I still think there is no better job on earth then working in funny books and telling stories

Mark

[John Wilson]

I think that now the only way to really get a job these days is to have had a job. If it is an independent publisher, they only want teams that come in with a finished book ready to publish. I don't see many small publisher wanting to take the effort to match artists with writers with inkers with colorists etc. For the larger companies. I believe that they are only interested if you can show them a resume of proven work. Look at how many of the "new" artists in the business come from overseas. Unless you are a penciling phenom, I wouldn't expect that first job to come from the Big 3.

[Robert W Hickey]

John The reason most indy's don't put together an art team and publish projects is economics. Money. With B&R Timelords I invested in a penciler, and inker and a colorist. We published it online one page a week and built up a little following. When we offered it to Diamond it sold 300 copies. So, how much more money do you invest before you find other ways to publish your work.
I know I'm getting away from the subject. Penciler is easier He show s acouple pages and he has what they want or he doesn't, a inker has to get copies of the best pencils he can find and ink a good sized amount of them to show that he is an accomplished inker.
I believe the digital market is where many new creators will cut their teeth and get seen. It's satisfying to get your work out to possible readers, so then you continue to produce more work, which means your getting better.
Besides BL is working on something that will help every creator to get his or her stuff digitally published.

[Rgholly]

it aint worth it trying to impress the marvel boys...they are worthless.
they are nothing but shothead.

indy comic are either worse or beggin..

pathetic.

do something else vector...

comic is just not for you..

sorry

rob

[ghosthillgh]

"it aint worth it trying to impress the marvel boys...they are worthless.
they are nothing but shothead.
indy comic are either worse or beggin..
pathetic.
do something else vector...
comic is just not for you..
sorry
rob "

If more people had this attitude, it'd be easier to break into comics. So Rob why are you here and what are you wanting to do in the field of comics? And to get back to the topic:
Who do you think has a better chance of getting in the biz first? They both require talent and personal uniqueness. Who will a company be likely to say yes to first?
Just wondering, it seems as if you're a bit bitter, mate.
g-

[The Leader]

Okay how many people on these boards are trying to break in as individuals?
I keep reading in submission guidlines and hearing in interviews that creative teams get in faster. Or at least they prefer to hire teams so they don't have to put them together themselves. Naturally hearing that I assembled a team of my own and we're all working together to get in the biz. I'm just curious who else is thinking the same thing?

I kinda had the same idea. Schleping my 'folio around wasn't really doing any good as everybody loved my work but never enough to hire me, so I hooked up with a writer to do a webcomic to do 3 things--
1) use it as an online 'folio to showcase my work.
2) to FORCE me to do alot of work and just keep my quality progressing until I reach pro level art.
3) so when I DO go to a con and an editor loves my work I can give him the web address and tell him that I have kept on schedule for a year (or however long) and use it to prove that, not only am I good, but consistent and reliable as well.

I'm hoping that if I can prove that I'm good as well as consistent and reliable to editors, the might give me a higher consideration.

That's the plan, anyway. We'll see.

~e.

Hokey smokes Bullwinkle! Erik, how have you been man? Nice to see you back from off the face of the Earth!

[The Leader]

Great subject and lots of great replies... even if it did go off on a bit of a tangent... the tangent was extremely interesting too. Thanks for the great advice peoples.