DC Announcement? Options

[Ron Fortier]

Prior to DC launching their FIRST WAVE which would be their umpteenth attempt at doing pulp heroes, Azz was invited to sit in on a pulp panel at the New York con (which was taped and can be found on You Tube). He then proceed to make a complete ass of himself slamming the original pulps, calling them all kinds of junk, disrespecting fans of those books and loudly proclaimed he and DC were going to turn that genre upside down with their take that would be so much better.
HA.
The books tanked. And yes Eric, the Spirit was the ONLY decent title in the line-up. As for him being shy and not a publicity hound, archived videos say otherwise.

[Fred Lang]

...So does Grant Morrison and I hate almost everything I've read by Morrison with a passion.

To each their own.

Thank goodness--I thought I was taking crazy pills. I think I'm supposed to think Morrison is amazing, but I never, ever enjoy his stories.

[doombug]

Prior to DC launching their FIRST WAVE which would be their umpteenth attempt at doing pulp heroes, Azz was invited to sit in on a pulp panel at the New York con (which was taped and can be found on You Tube). He then proceed to make a complete ass of himself slamming the original pulps, calling them all kinds of junk, disrespecting fans of those books and loudly proclaimed he and DC were going to turn that genre upside down with their take that would be so much better.
HA.
The books tanked. And yes Eric, the Spirit was the ONLY decent title in the line-up. As for him being shy and not a publicity hound, archived videos say otherwise.

I remember listening to John Suintress tell a story when the announcement was made where Brian said something like "only 3 or 4 people in the room are excited about this stuff"

WHy would you take on a project if you have so much disdain for the original materials?

[Gordon_D]

No. Do I respect the power he has in the market? Yes. And both DC, and the comic book stores, want to sell books.

And I think that's the huge issue that I have with BEFORE WATCHMEN. (Wanted to get us back on-topic....)

From a business standpoint, it makes a lot of sense - especially since the movie did not meet expectations, and DC has to do something with the characters. If it means creating more content to sell, and to give comic retailers a chance to sell more comics, then it's a perfectly grand idea.

However, from a creative standpoint...it seems unnecessary, and a little cynical. I can understand why a creator might want to delve into that world - everything from "it's a cool challenge" to "it's a paycheck" - and I won't fault them for that. (If I read correctly elsewhere, one of the artists on SAVAGE HAWKMAN indicated that if he were asked, he would pass....). No creator is going to say "This is a bad idea, but I'll participate and take the paycheck", privately or publicly, and I think that those individuals working on the books have the best intentions.

It's the fact that the novel - which has been self-contained, and cited as being a good entry point - doesn't really have too many openings for prequels (except the MINUTEMEN, which Moore & Gibbons had floated as a possibility in the past). We know the outcome for all of the major characters, so prequels automatically lose a little bit of their power. Very few readers care about a sane Rorschach, or a skinny Night Owl, or a slightly less monomaniacal Ozymandias. We care about them mostly within the terms of the original graphic novel.

(I won't go into the issue of creator's rights here - you're going to have to listen to Zone 4 for those. Suffice it to say, I'm more than a little bothered by the "Alan Moore should have gotten a lawyer back then" reactions....but he's not exactly innocent either. But then again, Zone 4. Next week. More will be revealed )

This post has been edited by Gordon_D: Feb 4 2012, 12:19 PM

[Greg G.]

I remember listening to John Suintress tell a story when the announcement was made where Brian said something like "only 3 or 4 people in the room are excited about this stuff"

WHy would you take on a project if you have so much disdain for the original materials?

There seems to be a lot of misinterpreting sarcasm going on here. I listened to that interview as well and Azzarello is just a cynical and sarcastic salty dog.

First Wave was a lot of fun for as long as it lasted, the problem is it's pulp characters - and no matter how much you (everybody present, not just you doombug - figured I'd better clarify so as to not get Azzarello'd) may not want to hear it; those characters are only relevant to a handful of fans. If Superman, Batman, and Spiderman represent the bulk of the market that sells to an aging market; then pulp heroes are even more niche selling to an even older market.

It's not like license holders are doing the franchises justice by letting stinkers like Green Hornet hit theaters and misrepresent the characters to old fans and not creating new fans.

That said, I appreciate pulp heroes continuing to exist largely in the periods they were created in. This is something Marvel/DC haven't learned and why we have Ultimate versions of decades old characters and the New 52. Opposition to new ideas, gotta re-fit those tired old horses and make them relevant to a new generation of fans.

I'm not Azzarello's biggest fan, but 100 Bullets is stellar. One of the best series I've ever read. His other work, hit or miss.

No creator is ever going to have a perfect batting average with their body of work. Everybody pumps out stinkers every now and then.

[Ron Fortier]

Greg, gonna agree with you only on that last. 100 BULLETS is terrific,....but because it IS the creator, his personality, his view of the world, his sarcastic hubris....all of that. Unfortunately he is one of those rare one trick ponies who cannot play in other people's sandboxes. Coincidentally this past week one of the discussions on a writers board I belong to discussed this very question in, "Do you prefer writing your own characters or working on licensed properties?" In Azz case, he's amply proven he can't do anything of quality except 100 BULLETS. And yes, it is great. He should have stayed in his sandbox.

This post has been edited by Ron Fortier: Feb 4 2012, 09:42 AM

[cougar18]

Greg, gonna agree with you only on that last. 100 BULLETS is terrific,....but because it IS the creator, his personality, his view of the world, his sarcastic hubris....all of that. Unfortunately he is one of those rare one trick ponies who cannot play in other people's sandboxes. Coincidentally this past week one of the discussions on a writers board I belong to discussed this very question in, "Do you prefer writing your own characters or working on licensed properties?" In Azz case, he's amply proven he can't do anything of quality except 100 BULLETS. And yes, it is great. He should have stayed in his sandbox.

Yeah, Azzarello was like this super hyped writer when 100 bullets came out. The next big thing and so on.

But then he started writing stuff that was not 100 bullets, and he just could not write anything PG or not created by him. Sad, really.

I mean, I know there are writers who can write outside of the sandbox, as well as within their own sandbox. But they are getting fewer and far between.

I mean, even just a bit over 10 years ago, writers were expected to be able to write everything, even if they had a particular niche. Like a comedian who can tell funny jokes without resorting to 'blue' language, even if they were magical in their swearing eg Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Azzarello seems to not carry the gravitas he displayed years ago.

Regarding the question as to why he would take on a character with such a limited appeal? Simple, maybe he was offered nothing else. He wrote Superman while on the 100 bullets wave, and made a haims of that.
Makes sense to put him on a low level character to prove he can still write.

[Greg G.]

Coincidentally this past week one of the discussions on a writers board I belong to discussed this very question in, "Do you prefer writing your own characters or working on licensed properties?" In Azz case, he's amply proven he can't do anything of quality except 100 BULLETS. And yes, it is great. He should have stayed in his sandbox.

Agreed. I get the feeling Azzarello is content to work on his own stuff, and it's Warner Brothers / DC that throws these other jobs his way. I get the impression he's not actively seeking out Superman and Wonder Woman just based off the volume of non-superhero work he has done.

It's the same with Grant Morrison for me.

I enjoyed him in the 90's when he wrote some really great Justice League America stories and then was over in the Vertigo imprint being all crazy. Today he's crossed the streams and his mainstream comic work incorporates a lot of his crazy Vertigo stuff and it doesn't enrich or enhance the final product. Final Crisis was such a disappointment after being somewhat excited for him to return to the DCU and write the heroes he did so well with in the past.

Makes sense to put him on a low level character to prove he can still write.

Low level character? Rorschach? The highly regarded and esteemed Watchmen?!

Please tell me I'm reading you wrong.

To me Azzarello and Rorschach on paper sounds like the best idea since chocolate and peanut butter.

I'll find out after my library gets the collected editions. Warner Bros / DC is not getting any of my money for this cash grab, and I hope some of the less focused creators (Adam Hughes) are using this as a warm up to finish commitments they made years ago.

[cougar18]

They put him on Rorschach?
Really?

Had not heard that decision. That is just bizarre.

I thought they might put him on something else instead, not a high profile book.