DC Flashpoint Relanch Analysis Options

[doombug]

On an even more serious note, if you have something to add to the conversation why not just add it? Not everyone can listen to this week's Why I love Comics.

Funny I didn't see moderator next to your name?

[Cary]

Yeah, I hope people enjoyed Barbara being a role model for people with handicaps for the last what? 20 years. I guess Johns really does want to put everything back to the 80's.

Ok, but so what? She was a role model for people with handicaps. Did she really DO anything for disabled people? It's not like she was a bastion of hope or anything. She was truly great as Oracle, and I deeply enjoyed her in that role. At the same time I ALWAYS secretly hoped she'd regain the use of her legs because she was an awesome Batgirl.

And if Johns wants to return to the 80s era of comics he gets my vote. Back then comics didn't suck.

[Cary]

Funny I didn't see moderator next to your name?

Nor yours. What's your point? I think it's silly to tease like that. If you have something to say then just say it.

[doombug]

Nor yours. What's your point? I think it's silly to tease like that. If you have something to say then just say it.

Okay fine: there was no need for your comment which came off as completely mean and not at all supportive of a fellow podcast on the CR podcast network.

[doombug]

And if Johns wants to return to the 80s era of comics he gets my vote. Back then comics didn't suck.

that's an extremely subjective statement.

[Russ Burlingame]

Okay fine: there was no need for your comment which came off as completely mean and not at all supportive of a fellow podcast on the CR podcast network.

A-freaking-men.

[Gonzogoose]

Guys, keep it civil and on topic.

[Cary]

Okay fine: there was no need for your comment which came off as completely mean and not at all supportive of a fellow podcast on the CR podcast network.

It's not that I'm not supportive of your podcast Eric, it's just pointless to jump into a thread just to point out you're talking about it elsewhere. What would have been more helpful is to have actually contributed to the discussion and then mention that you elaborate on this week's WILC. Can you see the difference?

that's an extremely subjective statement.

You are completely correct, it most certainly is. It's also a statement that a lot of folks agree with, especially if they're old enough to have lived through that era of comics and been fans at the time.

[tbrotomo]

Ok, but so what? She was a role model for people with handicaps. Did she really DO anything for disabled people? It's not like she was a bastion of hope or anything. She was truly great as Oracle, and I deeply enjoyed her in that role. At the same time I ALWAYS secretly hoped she'd regain the use of her legs because she was an awesome Batgirl.

And if Johns wants to return to the 80s era of comics he gets my vote. Back then comics didn't suck.

I agree with you completely here. I thought one of the most exciting stories that really made me as a comic reader fall for Barbara was the zero hour story where she could walk again briefly. I never read much DC until that point and I thought it was powerful, and have always been rooting for her to find a way to beat it since. While it's great to have a role model for handicapped folk saying "you can still be smart and do other things!" Let's keep in mind that it is a disability, and part of good storytelling espeically in a supernatural universe, is beating things in a way that "ooh" and "ahh!" the reader. Superman loses his powers, he regains them somehow. Batgirl, not having powers, loses her power to fight in some regard, regaining them makes sense. It's a death and resurrection motif really on a smaller scale. Just my two cents.

That said, Booooo! Stephanie is my Batgirl! Booo!

[doombug]

You are completely correct, it most certainly is. It's also a statement that a lot of folks agree with, especially if they're old enough to have lived through that era of comics and been fans at the time.

Which is ironic because that's not the readership that either company is supposedly trying to get at the moment.

[Cary]

I agree with you completely here. I thought one of the most exciting stories that really made me as a comic reader fall for Barbara was the zero hour story where she could walk again briefly. I never read much DC until that point and I thought it was powerful, and have always been rooting for her to find a way to beat it since. While it's great to have a role model for handicapped folk saying "you can still be smart and do other things!" Let's keep in mind that it is a disability, and part of good storytelling espeically in a supernatural universe, is beating things in a way that "ooh" and "ahh!" the reader. Superman loses his powers, he regains them somehow. Batgirl, not having powers, loses her power to fight in some regard, regaining them makes sense. It's a death and resurrection motif really on a smaller scale. Just my two cents.

That said, Booooo! Stephanie is my Batgirl! Booo!

lol Maybe they'll make Steph Batgirl's version of Robin! hehe I agree she totally rocked as Batgirl, in ways that Cassandra really didn't. I loved the Cassandra version as well at first, but I think after that initial arc they really didn't know what to do with her, nor how to justify her assassin past with her heroic present. With Steph you had the uncertain struggling Batgirl that we hadn't seen since Babs had the cape. She was always right there on the edge back in the day. She exuded confidence but she was always a little uncertain. She had to work twice as hard as Dick did to get even half the output because he was such a natural athlete. I think that's what made her the most appealing Batgirl for me, that fire in her. Steph had a ton of that as well, which is why I liked her so much. If anyone else was gonna be Batgirl instead of Steph I'd probably have a fit, but bringing back my Babs...yeah, I can dig it.

[Cary]

I gotta say tho...if they make Wally Kidflash again I'm going to be severely put out.

[Cary]

Which is ironic because that's not the readership that either company is supposedly trying to get at the moment.

Well sure, but they don't have to win over old school comic fans, because at the end of the day we'll always be comic fans. They gotta get NEW fans, and they gotta get us ALL into the digital age kicking and screaming. If they do these two things that's a huge win.

By returning to a style and form we had in the 80s, they're looking to build on good comics again. You're going to see the old guard digging it because it takes them back to the days when comics rocked across the board and you could pick up almost any comic on the shelf and get good solid stuff. They're also going to draw interest from a younger group precisely because it's new, it's different, and it's not their daddy's comic books. Digital comics are COOL to the younger crowd. They walk around with iPhones and iPads and they want their comics NOW while they're sitting in geometry class. They don't want to have to hit the comic store, and now they don't have to. See Brant rocking that cool new Superman book in the lunchroom? You can have it too, in about 15 seconds, and not have the hassle of getting it taken away or lost. The potential is truly massive in that market. Consider that we'd take 10-12 comics in our backpacks to school MAX back in the day, and every time we pulled one out in class we ran the risk of losing it. Now these kids can take their whole COLLECTIONS, and it's disguised as the iPad they use for school. No longer do they have to deal with the musty old books their dad still has socked away in longboxes in the closet. This is the digital age. And I'm afraid it's here to stay.

[tbrotomo]

lol Maybe they'll make Steph Batgirl's version of Robin! hehe I agree she totally rocked as Batgirl, in ways that Cassandra really didn't. I loved the Cassandra version as well at first, but I think after that initial arc they really didn't know what to do with her, nor how to justify her assassin past with her heroic present. With Steph you had the uncertain struggling Batgirl that we hadn't seen since Babs had the cape. She was always right there on the edge back in the day. She exuded confidence but she was always a little uncertain. She had to work twice as hard as Dick did to get even half the output because he was such a natural athlete. I think that's what made her the most appealing Batgirl for me, that fire in her. Steph had a ton of that as well, which is why I liked her so much. If anyone else was gonna be Batgirl instead of Steph I'd probably have a fit, but bringing back my Babs...yeah, I can dig it.

I can go off on the Batgirl topic alone for days on end. Yes, Steph really kicked it up a notch from the end of the last Batgirl run. Cassandra's concept was fricking awesome to start, and they slowly wrecked it (one writer in particular) by forcing her into a very conventional superhero role, which didn't fit with the personality they started with. And then making her villanous, well, that's the next obnoxiou step. I really liked the beginnings of the Cass Batgirl, but they spoiled (Get it? Get it?) that character. Stephanie is one of the most relatable characters since Peter Parker to come out of the Big 2 on the flip side. Bryan Q Miller does a great job, and it's a bummer that I bet he won't be on the book with the relaunch. I'm betting you get Babs helmed by Gail Simone.

[Tim Tilley]

I'm too busy and tired to discuss the topic in its entirety, buy much like Cary, I too am quite excited to see/hear that Barb is getting her cowl back. Stephanie was alright as Batgirl, but my Batgirl has always been Barbara.

[Lisa Moore]

If this means I can pick up some comics from the beginning and actually understand what's going on I'm all for it. Also I think I'm going to like being able to buy them digitally. I picked up the first four issues of irredeemable on my Nook Color last night. Read through the first one and really liked the way it worked. The only thing I didn't like is that the comic is it's own application. I wish they showed up as actual books. Anyway I don't know where DC plans to release the comics, but if I can read them on my Nook then I think I might try out several books. So from a newbie I'm saying it sounds cool to me!

[tbrotomo]

I found something interesting today: http://t.co/uT4Vdx2

Is DC relaunching to "reinvent" a Superman without the original Action Comics properties?

[Fred Lang]

I'm hopeful that the rebooting to #1 and digital distribution does what it needs to--brings in new readers by creating a starting point for those who look at issue #79 of a book and think, "How am I going to understand anything that I'm so far behind on?"

And we NEED new readers. Not someone who is already reading and wants to take a look at DC in particular, but we need people to buy their first comic EVER and get into this amazing thing called comics. We need it badly.

[Cary]

I found something interesting today: http://t.co/uT4Vdx2

Is DC relaunching to "reinvent" a Superman without the original Action Comics properties?

You know...I hadn't even considered how this might affect the law suit. I saw where the changes to Superman were pretty huge compared to previous alterations too. Makes you wonder.

[LurkD]

I'm hopeful that the rebooting to #1 and digital distribution does what it needs to--brings in new readers by creating a starting point for those who look at issue #79 of a book and think, "How am I going to understand anything that I'm so far behind on?"

And we NEED new readers. Not someone who is already reading and wants to take a look at DC in particular, but we need people to buy their first comic EVER and get into this amazing thing called comics. We need it badly.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The only new readers that are going to keep reading after finding out what the deal is are children. As long as the Big Two aren't catering to parents by presenting stories and art that are kid-friendly, yet engaging to the adult readers, mostly so parents can read them with their younger kids, there will be no new readers. Adults have already moved past the age where they will start reading stuff with pictures, unless they find it somewhere that they are already reading, like the newspaper or magazines. The biggest problem this industry has is a frighteningly huge reluctance to demand that Diamond put comics back where kids can find them, allowing Diamond to control when, where, and how much money the publishers make off of sales. This has been sounded with increasing frequency as the death knell of comics. And it needn't be.

Regarding newspapers, a lot of people, including many here, wax histrionic about how since we've entered the digital age, everything must be digital, including all forms of mass media and news. "We need to be able to download the latest issue of Batman onto our iPods!" Tell me, can you easily read them on your iPod? What makes you think people go the newspaper websites to read the comics? Print cartooning is just that; Print. That means on paper. When we move away from that as the primary delivery system, we move away from that as an artform. And that will truly sound the death knell of comics as we know them, be they newspaper strips, or the latest issue of Batman.