Sketch Magazine Podcast #37, Protecting Your Artwork and your IP... Options

[Bill Nichols]

Sketch Magazine Podcast #37
Hosted by Robert, Bill and John the Sketch Crew
Topic: The Crew talk about events that happened at MegaCon and how to protect your artwork and IP. We update everyone on the Sketch Blog at comicrelated.com and us what is currently going on the Sketch Community and ComicsMentor.com.

http://sketchmagazine.net/podcast.htm

[M.e. Walker]

Sketch Magazine Podcast #37
Hosted by Robert, Bill and John the Sketch Crew
Topic: The Crew talk about events that happened at MegaCon and how to protect your artwork and IP. We update everyone on the Sketch Blog at comicrelated.com and us what is currently going on the Sketch Community and ComicsMentor.com.

http://sketchmagazine.net/podcast.htm

Thank you for a great podcast. It was very helpful and well timed for the Rod Greed-anito and for my own recent concerns about it as well. One of the things I took from you talk was the impulse when it happens is to retreat from it, but the best solution is to get your work out more.

My sympathies for anyone that has had theft happen to. It's hard to put your heart into your artwork just to have someone claim it as their own.

Thank you again.

This post has been edited by M.e. Walker: Apr 6 2011, 02:33 PM

[Bill Nichols]

Always glad to help when and if we can.

[Tim Tilley]

As someone who (may have) had their work stolen, I found this to be an interesting topic. I will say that the mailing the work to yourself does not up in court and is not an acceptable form of evidence. What gets me is that while you are not legally bound by law to register your work for it to be legally considered copyrighted, it would seem that it's all the courts car about. Personally I like the idea of a watermark myself.

[M.e. Walker]

As someone who (may have) had their work stolen, I found this to be an interesting topic. I will say that the mailing the work to yourself does not up in court and is not an acceptable form of evidence. What gets me is that while you are not legally bound by law to register your work for it to be legally considered copyrighted, it would seem that it's all the courts car about. Personally I like the idea of a watermark myself.

Problem with watermarking that only works for posting it online. Added to the fact that people can crop off, mask off, or Photoshop out watermarks. I've seen watermarks on prints before, but that really makes me personally not want to buy the print. Especially if the water mark is visible on the work. Not that I wouldn't suggest excluding watermarks for internet posting.

From recently having to really think about how to deal with this issue for my own work, I decided to stepping up rather then retreating from it (retreating is my gut reaction.) I'm not only doing two different watermarking methods on anything online, but I'm trying to increase it's exposure. In case of RG's theft he basically traced the work, so unless he traces the water mark/signature, that doesn't help. What helps is the more people that know the original artist's work. In his case and as well as what was brought up in the podcast, it was the community itself that often takes the front against this. Which is, if you want to take it from situations like this is, the fans and community really showed their support to the artist by exposing such fraud. I'd like to think that if I got my stuff out there enough that someday I'd enjoy the support of the community like that.

[Greg G.]

Hi guys, just listened to the new episode and wanted to suggest folks check out Dave Sim's writings on self publishing. Here's an excerpt:

Steve Bissette went through the whole process of copyrighting and trademarking Tyrant. Any good copyright attorney can accomplish this for you. You pay them a few hundred dollars and they do a 'title search' (or somesuch) which tells them whether anyone has any previous claim to the name that you're trying to copyright and trademark. We sent Steve, at his request, a copy of the Cerebus issue that had the jam drawing of Cerebus and Tyrant, which he included with the ashcan of #1, fulfilling the requirements of 'intent to publish' and, in a matter of a few weeks, he had the paperwork that gave him clear title to Tyrant. Marvel released an individual book of some kind called 'Tyrant' shortly thereafter. Steve made a phone call to his attorney, found out that they hadn't even attempted to file a claim, so Steve was safe. (Wisely) he has no intention of taking legal action against them, but he is covered.

My personal view, relative to self-publishing, is that the only way to protect ownership of your character is to keep doing your character on a regular basis, establish your character, and thus render meaningless any attempt by anyone to take it away.

You can read all the articles here (Notes on how to become a cartooning self-publisher).

I'd also caution folks to learn from the past. What happened with our funnybook forefathers still can happen today. If you're joining an art site always read the fine print. I've run across art sites which have "shared universes", but the catch is to play in said universe you need to relinquish the rights to your creation. It's the height of absurdity as anybody can publish a comic online. Anybody. Don't let some shyster tell you they're the gate keeper.

Similarly read all of the contractual fine print. I backed out of the Tokyopop Rising Stars of Manga contest due to them laying claim to pretty much all the rights to your creation.

If you want more detailed reading on copyrights, patents, and trademarks check out Territorial Intellectual Property Rights in an Age of Globalism (go to III. Extraterritorial Application of Intellectual Property Law) for all the dry, but essential details.

Thanks for the show. Just wanted to toss out a couple articles I hope other creators would find interesting to read.

[Minjaz]

Great podcast.. had a good listen to it at work today. I was wondering if you fellows were going to address the whole Granito debacle and I'm glad to see you didn't disappoint. My favorite parts of the shows are quickly becoming when you guys stray off topic and start chatting up among yourselves. Your "on air banter" is getting better and is nice to listen to.

Awesome Dave Sim quote... I have that book but haven't had chance to finish it yet.

[Tim Tilley]

Awesome information Greg, thanks. Oddly, I do believe that even deviantART claim to own all the rights to your creations. They did at one point anyway, that's why I hid most of my personal projects off of there. I don't trust most of these companies anymore.

[Greg G.]

I do seem to recall there being something a few years back, at the very least where DeviantArt would have free license to print and resell images on merchandise that you hosted with them. However I may be recalling that incorrectly.

On the subject of earning a living in comics, I noticed Evan Dorkin on twitter commenting on an article so I went and dug it up:

If comics are so big, why are so few artists making a living at it?

If a LoneLy ComICs nerd from, say, 1961 were suddenly whisked by rip Hunter, Time master to the present day, he’d think comics had taken over the world.

Kids are still reading comics, but they also fill racks in bookstores under the name “graphic novel” (no one is fooled). Comic art hangs on museum walls; there are even museums devoted to them. Go to the cineplex, and at least one screen will likely be showing a comic-book movie.

If our bedazzled nerd friend found his way to the MoCCA Fest in New York this weekend, he’d see hundreds of comics artists giving classes, selling comics, and signing autographs, just like movie stars. Truly, he would think, this is the Golden Age.

But after a while, a different kind of thought might cross his mind:

If comics are so big, how come so few of these people are making a living at it?

That's just the hyperbolic opening, it's worth reading the entire article.

It's a mystery I'd like to get to the bottom of some day. I know Tony Harris has expressed some very strong and interesting opinions about how artists are paid and treated in the industry on Word Balloon. If I were in a position to solicit him for more information (say I had a podcast) I totally would.

And in case everybody isn't familiar with Steve Bissette's tale of woe - I went and dug some of that info up so folks can have an idea of just how rough the industry can be.

AVC: What was your day job?

SB: I had been a shareholder in First Run Video, a video superstore in Brattleboro, Vermont, since November of ’91, when we opened our doors… And then, in ’97, ’98, when the whole comics industry collapsed, I pulled the plug on Tyrant, I went back to my friend and the owner, Alan Goldstein, and said “Alan, I’m looking for work now.” He wanted to bring me in as a manager, and I said “Nope! I want to start as a desk clerk, minimum wage. I need to learn every job in the store if I’m going to be manager, and I want to work my way up the ladder.” So I started at the front desk, and I popped popcorn my first week, because I didn’t know how to run the computers. And I did every job, worked my way up through.

There was a kid who walked into the video store. He was one of the customers, this shaggy-haired teenager. And he looked at my nametag one day, and it kind of hit him. And he said “Are you the guy that used to draw Swamp Thing?” And I went “Yeah!” And he bolted out of the store. It’s like I’d hit him in the head with a board.

And then I got an e-mail from a friend saying “Have you seen Grant Morrison’s blog?” I didn’t even know what a blog was. And I’m pretty sure it was the kid, because he said “I just found out that Steve Bissette of Swamp Thing is working at a local video store, and he writes a column for the local paper, and I’m horrified!” And Grant Morrison said something like “I’d rather put a bullet in my head first.”

I was like “Well, what the f*ck!” [Laughs.] And I never saw that kid again. He never came back to the store. It was really a shock for him. And to me it was like, “Welcome to the world.” And as I said earlier in the interview, I remembered the teachers at the Kubert School, who were going through all the employment upset—like losing their freelance gigs, and their husbands being fired from DC. They were in their 40s. I was in my 40s. I see how it is.

A.V.Club Interview

Also of note he was making $63 a page around 1982-ish for Swamp Thing. Adjusted for inflation in 2010 that would be $136 a page. Of course this all hinges on are you as talented in 2010 as Steve Bissette was in 1982?

Another interview.

Please note, this isn't a condemnation of comics. I love comics and would some day love to get the stuff in my head onto paper (and by that I mean digital publication) for other folks to enjoy, or perhaps hate.

I realize you have to eat dirt when you're in any career, heck ANY stage of your life. I wasn't the smartest kid or best student so it took eight years of my life before I started making decent money with benefits for a single guy (went from $8k annual to $25k a decade ago) in the midwest.

So I'm not saying I expect to walk into comics and make $500 a page (which if newcomers had a viable point of salary reference, no matter how talented, they'd be a little more humble coming in the door), but I do enjoy having heat on in my house during the frigid winter and eating more than ramen (both of which I did in spades a few years back during harsh times).

Without any solid info I'd have to just go with Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25 and do the math for what the monthly income would be - $1,160. Divide that by 22 pages and to make at least minimum wage in comics you'd have to ask $52 a page to barely eke out an existence.

I'm not saying I want a mansion and a yacht (Elmer Fudd), but just to realistically make ends meet.

It's also worth noting for the person breaking in that having a published body of work at $52 a page is more valuable than demanding $500 a page and not getting any work and experience behind you.

Sorry, I'm going blah blah blah smacking my keyboard here. I should be drawing.

This post has been edited by Greg G.: Apr 11 2011, 09:32 PM

[Minjaz]

Please Sir Greg... do babble on some more! I found everything you said most fascinating. Are there links to the articles you referenced?

[Greg G.]

Please Sir Greg... do babble on some more! I found everything you said most fascinating. Are there links to the articles you referenced?

Sorry for the late response.

All the links to interviews should be embedded in the post.

The Word Balloon episode I referenced can be downloaded here.

[Minjaz]

Cool beans! Thanks.

[Greg G.]

Thanks to my buddy Lawrence. He found the Seqa Lab Podcast panel discussion in which a cartoonist discusses salaries candidly at the 44 minute mark:

IDW $100 a page, pencil and ink. $50 to ink. $150 total
Dark Horse a little more. Scaled to project you're working on.
Marvel starting $180 per page to start. Pencilling.
After six to eight consecutive issues it's okay to ask for pay raise and maybe exclusive contract.
DC - Pays roughly the same.
The long you work, rate will go up. Marvel paying up to $300-350 to pencil a page. Won't go higher unless you go exclusive with Marvel (around $400 a page, David Finch level).

$30-50k a year drawing comics at the entry / intermediate level.

Artist from IDW who works on G.I. Joe.

That's pretty appealing.