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Citizen no more
Cary
post Apr 30 2011, 05:19 AM
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http://comicrelated.com/blog.php#american-way-no-more

So I read that yesterday and the more I think about it the more it pisses me off. You can take all your sweet little PC talk about how the world is so much smaller these days and shove it. Superman has always fought for truth justice and the AMERICAN way. That's who he is. If he had fallen to Earth in Russia things might be different, but he didn't. So now they strip yet another piece of the character away, in what I can only view as a marketing scheme. They should have left him dead after Doomsday. This...is a travesty. DC comics should be ashamed.


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Cary
post May 2 2011, 06:00 AM
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Being a Superman fan and reader going back almost to the very first comics I read, I'm pretty well versed in his origins. I think with the Kryptonian education you allude to there's quite a bit of movie lore tossed in there. Even in the most recent comic continuity he didn't learn the Kryptonian language until adulthood, so the whole learning from his birth parents thing is pretty slim, IMO. Clark Kent was raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent with traditional American values, plain and simple. His father taught him it wasn't right to use his powers to play sports because it gave him an unfair advantage. Both parents taught him the importance of honesty and truth. Hell, a number of heroes like Green Arrow and Batman call him the "Boy scout". While his Kryptonian lineage is undeniable, his personality, his ethics, even his sensibilities are uniquely American.

I've known people who renounced their citizenship. In a couple of cases very good friends of mine. For most of them it was because they got fouled up in one way or another with the justice system and opted out to end some painful legal wrangling. Some of them did it for tax purposes, which I consider to be pretty silly honestly, but that's just me. In every single case the one common denominator is, they wish they hadn't done so. At least on that point I can agree with them.

I've never said America is perfect. In fact I think we're far from it. But I think that's a good thing. I think having a lot of work to do to get where we need to be is a healthy thing to have, because we can't simply rest on our laurels. We have to keep pushing forward, keep striving to be better. But that striving doesn't mean we should give up our sense of what it means to be an American.

I used Russia as an example because I grew up in and served during the Cold War. Having traveled to Russia and seen the country first hand, I can tell you they aren't nearly as cosmopolitan as you're making them sound. I'm not sure what you mean by Russians having more freedoms than we do, but having had boots on the ground there and having a number of Russian and other former Soviet bloc friends, that's not the case at all.

I will agree, especially in Europe, we are viewed as very sheltered and uninformed. I'd say part of that is legitimate, no doubt about it. Americans don't travel internationally as much as the citizens of other countries do, mostly I believe because we have such a vast country right here at home to see and experience. And certainly our "news" is pretty filtered because it's almost entirely owned by corporations with various interests that don't always coincide with our own. But I've always found that falling back on something my grandfather told me once has served me quite well. He said simply: "Don't believe everything you read, or see on TV." I've found that to be some of the best advice anyone has every given me, and even more relevant in this day and age where even still pictures are easily manipulated to suit the needs of the moment.

And for the record, I have no issue with Superman being a hero for the world. I've always felt like that was his job anyway, as he sees it. It's the renouncing his citizenship that I find uncharacteristic. Superman shouldn't really be bothered with something of that nature. It's not like he carries a passport anyway, right? So that brings me back to it being the writer, and by extension editorial, espousing their politics through a character that should be well above that at this point.

And I have to wonder...since Superman's now a 'citizen of the world' does DC plan to stop the mindless litigation against his creators and return to them what's owed? I'd say probably not.


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Zodar
post May 2 2011, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (Cary @ May 2 2011, 08:00 AM) *
And for the record, I have no issue with Superman being a hero for the world. I've always felt like that was his job anyway, as he sees it. It's the renouncing his citizenship that I find uncharacteristic. Superman shouldn't really be bothered with something of that nature. It's not like he carries a passport anyway, right? So that brings me back to it being the writer, and by extension editorial, espousing their politics through a character that should be well above that at this point.


He did it so his actions wouldn't be percieved as the actions of the United States. Hell, I am an American citizen and I wouldn't want any of my actions seen as being the action of the US. This is similar to when Captain America unmasked stating, essentially, "this isn't America doing this, this is Steve Rogers" when he killed a terrorist on camera. He was trying to insulate the government from blame for actions he was personally commiting. Yeah, it wouldn't really work that way, but that was the attempt.

Talking back to one of your earlier comments, and a comment I've seen repeatedly, this story is in no way saying that the American way is in opposition to Truth and Justice. If Mark Millar or Warren Ellis had written it, I'm sure that would have been the case, and I could understand the reaction a little more. I still wouldn't agree with the reaction to it as I am critical of how our goverment sometime acts and do feel that America does not always act in the interests of truth and justice. But that's outside this and not worth getting into here. The point is that this is not disparaging America.

They typically portray Clark/Kal as the real guy, and Superman being a symbolic persona that he puts on. Clark, I'm sure, still considers himself an American citizen and continues to be proud of the upbringing he received. The main story in the issue itself showed how much his adoptive parents still mean to him.

Like Eric said, this could make for some good stories. Maybe we should let it play out before getting too upset. For all we know, the story planned could have had him turn around at the end. Unlikely, but now if it goes that way the impression would be that the creators caved due to response.

As for the politics of the creators, that's been there since the Golden Age with the heroes getting into WW2. Then in the 60s and 70s we had quite a bit dealing with race, while the 70s and 80s moved into the environment, drugs, and class differences. And most of those comics are highly praised today for the fact that they went further than just entertainment.

This post has been edited by Zodar: May 2 2011, 07:36 AM


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Posts in this topic
- Cary   Citizen no more   Apr 30 2011, 05:19 AM
- - Glen Davis   That's the way I feel about it.   Apr 30 2011, 11:33 AM
|- - Mark Ellis   QUOTE (Glen Davis @ Apr 30 2011, 01:33 PM...   Apr 30 2011, 11:47 AM
|- - tbrotomo   Gimmicky and ridiculous. What's really annoy...   Apr 30 2011, 12:08 PM
- - Gonzogoose   That's actually not necessarily true, Cary. Th...   Apr 30 2011, 12:19 PM
- - Cary   Ok so it's only been "American way" ...   Apr 30 2011, 02:07 PM
|- - cougar18   QUOTE (Cary @ Apr 30 2011, 12:07 PM) Ok s...   May 1 2011, 10:39 PM
- - Tim Tilley   I'm just mostly re-posting what I said on Face...   Apr 30 2011, 02:30 PM
- - Dave Arhar   It's definitely a publicity stunt, but I think...   Apr 30 2011, 02:52 PM
- - Gonzogoose   Cary, you said "always," I was just corr...   Apr 30 2011, 02:57 PM
|- - Cary   QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Apr 30 2011, 03:57 PM...   May 1 2011, 05:30 AM
|- - Mark Ellis   QUOTE (Cary @ May 1 2011, 07:30 AM) It...   May 1 2011, 06:42 AM
- - Tim Tilley   I think the main reason I don't care is becaus...   Apr 30 2011, 02:57 PM
- - Gonzogoose   Honestly, I don't even think that was their in...   Apr 30 2011, 03:01 PM
|- - Mark Ellis   You realize of course that unless Superman (not Cl...   Apr 30 2011, 03:54 PM
- - Mike Luoma   Supes is an illegal. Always has been, really. Look...   Apr 30 2011, 04:30 PM
- - Eric Adams   Man, this thread is ripe for sparring... First, I...   Apr 30 2011, 08:08 PM
- - wwi3313   Perhaps if this was a part of a bigger storyline -...   Apr 30 2011, 09:00 PM
- - ChadStrohl   Sounds like the writer in question is honoring the...   Apr 30 2011, 10:47 PM
|- - tbrotomo   QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Apr 30 2011, 09:47 PM...   Apr 30 2011, 11:52 PM
|- - Zodar   QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ May 1 2011, 12:47 AM)...   May 2 2011, 07:30 AM
- - Gonzogoose   Cary, it's not that I don't understand... ...   May 1 2011, 09:12 AM
|- - Cary   QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ May 1 2011, 10:12 AM)...   May 1 2011, 02:57 PM
|- - Mark Ellis   QUOTE (Cary @ May 1 2011, 04:57 PM) As to...   May 2 2011, 07:53 AM
|- - cougar18   QUOTE (Mark Ellis @ May 2 2011, 06:53 AM)...   May 2 2011, 12:33 PM
|- - Cary   QUOTE (cougar18 @ May 2 2011, 01:33 PM) G...   May 2 2011, 05:35 PM
|- - cougar18   QUOTE (Cary @ May 2 2011, 04:35 PM) It...   May 2 2011, 06:43 PM
|- - Mark Ellis   QUOTE (Cary @ May 2 2011, 07:35 PM) Accor...   May 2 2011, 07:30 PM
|- - Gonzogoose   QUOTE (Mark Ellis @ May 2 2011, 09:30 PM)...   May 2 2011, 09:02 PM
- - Gonzogoose   I just think that there are two ways to view this....   May 1 2011, 03:34 PM
- - Kenn Minter   I'm on Superman's side. I think it's g...   May 2 2011, 07:55 AM
- - Glen Davis   http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/hollywoo...on-th...   May 2 2011, 11:33 AM
- - Liam Bradley   I F**KING LOVE THIS THREAD.   May 2 2011, 07:12 PM
- - ChadStrohl   QUOTE (Zodar @ May 2 2011, 09:30 AM) I...   May 2 2011, 09:01 PM
- - ChadStrohl   QUOTE (Mark Ellis @ May 2 2011, 09:30 PM)...   May 2 2011, 09:05 PM
|- - cougar18   QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ May 2 2011, 07:05 PM)...   May 3 2011, 03:24 AM
|- - Glen Davis   QUOTE (cougar18 @ May 3 2011, 02:24 AM) W...   May 3 2011, 11:18 AM
|- - Gordon_D   Rather than get involved in some of the more jingo...   May 3 2011, 07:54 PM
|- - cougar18   QUOTE (Gordon_D @ May 3 2011, 06:54 PM) R...   May 4 2011, 05:00 AM
- - Cary   Ah, Brett Booth has decided everyone who has an op...   May 3 2011, 05:43 AM
|- - Mark Ellis   QUOTE (Cary @ May 3 2011, 07:43 AM) That ...   May 3 2011, 10:36 AM
- - Gonzogoose   He's not wadding it up and throwing it away, t...   May 3 2011, 05:57 AM
|- - Cary   QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ May 3 2011, 06:57 AM)...   May 3 2011, 06:01 AM
- - Gonzogoose   Well, in real life, anytime America intervenes in ...   May 3 2011, 06:12 AM
- - cougar18   QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ May 3 2011, 05:12 AM)...   May 3 2011, 08:23 AM
- - Cary   QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ May 3 2011, 07:12 AM)...   May 4 2011, 05:35 AM
- - Zodar   QUOTE (Cary @ May 4 2011, 07:35 AM) It wo...   May 4 2011, 06:21 AM
- - cougar18   QUOTE (Zodar @ May 4 2011, 05:21 AM) Yeah...   May 4 2011, 06:44 AM


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