Fellow Artists--Don't Work For FREE. |
Fellow Artists--Don't Work For FREE. |
Oct 12 2011, 11:18 PM
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#1
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![]() Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 333 Joined: 15-October 10 From: San Francisco, CA Member No.: 19,590 |
The following aren't my words--they're one of those unable-to-attribute things that The Internet spews out from time to time. I believe it started as a Craigslist posting, but again, it's The Internet, and thus full of inaccuracies and downright lies.
What it IS is a great set of things to think about when you're asked to draw for FREE or design for FREE or consult for FREE by someone who wants your hard work on their project, but doesn't want to pay you for it. I'd have worded some of these differently, but you'll get the idea. Read on, fellow artists: The Post ------------------------ Every day, there are more and more posts seeking “artists” for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs. More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service. But what they’re NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be. To those who are “seeking artists”, let me ask you; How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? …none? More than likely, you don’t know any. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting on craigslist to find them. And this is not really a surprise. In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators. There are eleven times as many certified mechanics. There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field. So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free? Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street? Would you offer a neurosurgeon the “opportunity” to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor? (Maybe you could offer him “a few bucks” for “materials”. What a deal!) Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you? If you answered “yes” to ANY of the above, you’re obviously insane. If you answered “no”, then kudos to you for living in the real world. But then tell me… why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks? Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen. As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person. In short, it makes you look like a twit. A few things you need to know; 1. It is not a “great opportunity” for an artist to have his work seen on your car/’zine/website/bedroom wall, etc. It IS a “great opportunity” for YOU to have THEIR work there. 2. It is not clever to seek a “student” or “beginner” in an attempt to get work for free. It’s ignorant and insulting. They may be “students”, but that does not mean they don’t deserve to be paid for their hard work. You were a “student” once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world? Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid. 3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether it’s one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement. Neither is the right to add that work to their “portfolio”. They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should. It’s not compensation. It’s their right, and it’s a given. 4. Stop thinking that you’re giving them some great chance to work. Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them. There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills. 5. Students DO need “experience”. But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway. Do you think professional contractors list the “experience” they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother’s house when they were seventeen? If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received. The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with. So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are “spec” gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them. And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free… please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you’re accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue. I guarantee that every single artist on this board is worth more than FREE. Fred -------------------- Owner and Creator at PixelFigs
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Oct 25 2011, 10:54 PM
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#2
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![]() Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 521 Joined: 23-June 08 From: Burlington, Vermont Member No.: 2,696 |
I saw this thread title and agreed with the sentiment. Then I read the post. Yikes. Thank you, my friends, for maintaining such a civil discussion on this always contentious topic following the post. Reinforces my faith in the CR Community
Nobody should work for free. Only do the work if you get something out of it. What that something is? That's up to you. Could be money. Satisfaction. Fame. Portfolio. Whatever. At the indiest of indie levels, it's all negotiable - no one size fits all. And no matter what creative role you're playing, if you ever feel like you're being used? Taken advantage of? Say so. Tell the project leader. Decide what to do next based on the answer you get. Don't do the work unless what you get out of it is worth the time you put into it. To you. Not complicated. And because I feel a little defensive, gotta say - Writing is more than just typing. That's merely the final step in a long process, if you're doing it right. I'm not trying to be writer v. artist here. No reason to be. Actually, I'm kind of jealous that there's a higher initial talent "bar" for artists. Too many people think since they can type that they're writers. Makes it very competitive initially. Artists are bombarded by would-be writers. But just like all artists, all writers aren't created equal. Some bring more to the table than others, talent-wise and additional skills. I encourage writers to not only work on their craft as writers but to also learn the elements of comic book production and lettering. Increase the worth, the value you have to offer. Be a better writer, sure - but if you can letter, format, finish and publish a book, you'll have a lot more to offer an artist. -------------------- Get free downloads and listen to free audiobooks at glowinthedarkradio.com
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Oct 26 2011, 11:23 PM
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#3
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![]() Advanced Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 663 Joined: 22-October 08 From: Cincinnati, Ohio Member No.: 2,810 |
I encourage writers to not only work on their craft as writers but to also learn the elements of comic book production and lettering. Increase the worth, the value you have to offer. Be a better writer, sure - but if you can letter, format, finish and publish a book, you'll have a lot more to offer an artist. Well said, Mike. I think self-improvement and a desire to learn more is always a great idea. I'm an artist... and writer, and sometimes letterer and colorist too, depending on the projects. When I took a job a few years ago at a printing company, my wife was shocked and told me "What? Aren't you going to be bored and sick of it?". I said, "Nope! Do you realize all the stuff I can learn while I am there? I can actually learn how to set-up and print a comic book. I'm going to learn it all." Fact is, I've printed a few comic books as jobs there, and unlike some of my peers there who just sat around when they weren't setting up files and printing, I also worked closely with the bindery guys and learned from them on how to use the bindery equipment myself. Even though I no longer have the job due to some rough layoffs, I am proud to say that I know I can actually handle every step of the full production of a comic book... from concept and writing, character design, penciling and inking, lettering and coloring, layout and file set-up, ordering supplies and choosing the proper paper stock weights, printing and collating, cutting and folding, stapling and boxing up. Even mounting and laminating for related materials, and putting together pop-up displays and printing banners. It's all valuable to me personally and something I was very happy to learn. After printing, I've even done some sales and marketing, as well as promotion, and some very street-level distribution. Am I great at every portion of it? Maybe not, but I understand it all and not only hope that's valuable to others who need me, but it's so valuable to me personally to have a good grasp of it. Scott This post has been edited by ScottDMSimmons: Oct 26 2011, 11:28 PM -------------------- |
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Fred Lang Fellow Artists--Don't Work For FREE. Oct 12 2011, 11:18 PM
MasonEasley I agree. We had a good thread a while back about p... Oct 13 2011, 03:17 PM
wwi3313 I gotta cry foul on this one, yo! It rings to... Oct 21 2011, 10:14 AM
Cary QUOTE (wwi3313 @ Oct 21 2011, 11:14 AM) I... Oct 21 2011, 12:57 PM
Ron Fortier So in other words whenever I wrote for small indep... Oct 21 2011, 03:07 PM
Cary QUOTE (Ron Fortier @ Oct 21 2011, 04:07 P... Oct 21 2011, 06:24 PM
G-Man I have many gifts.
I am a great landscaper.
I hav... Oct 22 2011, 05:26 AM
wwi3313 Sorry to have been out of the loop for the past fe... Oct 22 2011, 06:01 PM
Fred Lang Well, I can see that I've stepped in it here. ... Oct 23 2011, 12:43 AM
G-Man Fred-
If your art is how you pay the bills and pu... Oct 23 2011, 07:47 AM
Ron Fortier First up let me applaud the truly thoughtful respo... Oct 23 2011, 08:16 AM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (Ron Fortier @ Oct 23 2011, 09:16 A... Oct 23 2011, 12:30 PM
Gonzogoose I have steered clear of this topic because on othe... Oct 23 2011, 02:26 PM
Fred Lang QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Oct 23 2011, 01:26 PM... Oct 24 2011, 05:41 PM
MasonEasley These topics always devolve because the industry i... Oct 23 2011, 07:05 PM
Cary QUOTE (MasonEasley @ Oct 23 2011, 08:05 P... Oct 23 2011, 10:48 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Cary @ Oct 24 2011, 12:48 AM) Hmmm... Oct 24 2011, 09:42 AM
Tim Tilley I understand the meaning behind this discussion an... Oct 23 2011, 08:44 PM
Ron Fortier Cary, old amigo, that last bit about gathering tog... Oct 24 2011, 07:59 AM
Cary QUOTE (Ron Fortier @ Oct 24 2011, 08:59 A... Oct 24 2011, 11:58 AM
tbrotomo As a writer who pays out far too much of my day jo... Oct 26 2011, 02:08 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (tbrotomo @ Oct 26 2011, 02:08 PM) ... Oct 26 2011, 09:56 PM
tbrotomo QUOTE (Anthony Hochrein @ Oct 26 2011, 08... Oct 27 2011, 10:03 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (tbrotomo @ Oct 27 2011, 10:03 PM) ... Oct 28 2011, 06:56 AM
Cary @Mason-I can't say I disagree with you sir. I ... Oct 24 2011, 11:53 AM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Cary @ Oct 24 2011, 01:53 PM) @Mas... Oct 24 2011, 12:25 PM
ChadStrohl QUOTE (MasonEasley @ Oct 24 2011, 11:42 A... Oct 24 2011, 02:43 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Oct 24 2011, 04:43 PM... Oct 24 2011, 03:37 PM
Anthony Hochrein Well, just remember that commercial art is just th... Oct 24 2011, 03:21 PM
Gonzogoose Oh, come on, Mason. Let's not turn this into t... Oct 24 2011, 04:37 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Oct 24 2011, 06:37 PM... Oct 24 2011, 05:06 PM
Gonzogoose You are confusing difficulty with time. Yes, it ta... Oct 24 2011, 05:29 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Oct 24 2011, 07:29 PM... Oct 24 2011, 07:06 PM
Fred Lang Hey, Shoo! If you wanna go fight about writer... Oct 24 2011, 05:30 PM
Gonzogoose lol, no fights here, plain conversation. Truth is,... Oct 24 2011, 05:36 PM
G-Man I can't recall any writer being called out for... Oct 24 2011, 05:38 PM
ChadStrohl I didn't balance my comment very well, I think... Oct 24 2011, 06:26 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Oct 24 2011, 08:26 PM... Oct 24 2011, 07:18 PM
Dustin So, I'm going to bring this conversation back ... Oct 24 2011, 07:08 PM
Gonzogoose Sigh, it IS insulting to say anyone literate can w... Oct 24 2011, 07:57 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Oct 24 2011, 09:57 PM... Oct 24 2011, 08:47 PM
ChadStrohl QUOTE (MasonEasley @ Oct 24 2011, 09:18 P... Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Oct 24 2011, 11:47 PM... Oct 25 2011, 11:07 AM
wwi3313 I need to stay up on this post! Man! You... Oct 25 2011, 01:37 PM
ChadStrohl I don't want to beat this dead horse too much,... Nov 6 2011, 08:40 PM
MasonEasley QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Nov 6 2011, 09:40 PM)... Nov 7 2011, 02:49 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (MasonEasley @ Nov 7 2011, 03:49 PM... Nov 8 2011, 07:41 AM
MasonEasley QUOTE (Anthony Hochrein @ Nov 8 2011, 08... Nov 8 2011, 10:26 AM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (MasonEasley @ Nov 8 2011, 11:26 AM... Nov 8 2011, 12:52 PM
Gonzogoose Given Marvel's layoffs, book cancellations and... Nov 8 2011, 12:09 PM
ChadStrohl QUOTE (Gonzogoose @ Nov 8 2011, 01:09 PM)... Nov 8 2011, 01:26 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Nov 8 2011, 02:26 PM)... Nov 8 2011, 01:36 PM
ChadStrohl QUOTE (Anthony Hochrein @ Nov 8 2011, 02... Nov 8 2011, 04:41 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Nov 8 2011, 05:41 PM)... Nov 8 2011, 08:13 PM
ChadStrohl QUOTE (Anthony Hochrein @ Nov 8 2011, 09... Nov 8 2011, 09:14 PM
Anthony Hochrein QUOTE (ChadStrohl @ Nov 8 2011, 10:14 PM)... Nov 9 2011, 03:05 PM![]() ![]() |
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