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Never Say Bad Things
Rayman
post Feb 29 2012, 05:34 PM
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One of the rules in Hollywood is never say bad things about the “up and coming” because one day they may be your boss. Or they may be in a position to make your life uncomfortable if they remember your betrayal - even if it was years ago. The person in the mailroom can work his way up the ladder to development and then become a producer and then a powerful producer. Maybe even head of the studio. That person has a memory and if you’ve ever spoken badly about him or his work, it’s human nature to remember those stinging words and the person who spoke them. Chances are if that person gets the opportunity to choose a team with either person x or y and person x was a former critic… well you’ve been there yourself haven’t you? “What did I do to deserve my bad luck?” you ask yourself.

The same could be said for the comic industry. Be careful who you criticize. Elephants don’t forget and neither do people.

What’s the gain in criticizing anyway? Really? By criticizing you don’t magically become a better writer or artist yourself – do you? You’re not purging the competition out of your way by doing this either.

You feel bad about someone else’s success – you feel it should belong to you instead, don’t you? You feel your genius should be recognized instead of the object of your scorn, don’t you? You say to yourself “When am I going to get mine?!”

Well, criticizing other people’s work is not the way.
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cougar18
post Mar 1 2012, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE (Rayman @ Feb 29 2012, 05:34 PM) *
One of the rules in Hollywood is never say bad things about the “up and coming” because one day they may be your boss. Or they may be in a position to make your life uncomfortable if they remember your betrayal - even if it was years ago. The person in the mailroom can work his way up the ladder to development and then become a producer and then a powerful producer. Maybe even head of the studio. That person has a memory and if you’ve ever spoken badly about him or his work, it’s human nature to remember those stinging words and the person who spoke them. Chances are if that person gets the opportunity to choose a team with either person x or y and person x was a former critic… well you’ve been there yourself haven’t you? “What did I do to deserve my bad luck?” you ask yourself.

The same could be said for the comic industry. Be careful who you criticize. Elephants don’t forget and neither do people.

What’s the gain in criticizing anyway? Really? By criticizing you don’t magically become a better writer or artist yourself – do you? You’re not purging the competition out of your way by doing this either.

You feel bad about someone else’s success – you feel it should belong to you instead, don’t you? You feel your genius should be recognized instead of the object of your scorn, don’t you? You say to yourself “When am I going to get mine?!”

Well, criticizing other people’s work is not the way.


I partially agree with this, and I feel some additional elements should be mentioned. Criticising work is okay, as long as it is (a) constructive or (cool.gif steering them towards learning the intricate minutiae that will make them great. Basically, (a) squared.
We have all seen the 'That sucks' comments on here or any other channel. Heck, just look at people like Brett Booth or Mark Brook's blogs or DA accounts (just off the top of my head, not criticising those kind folks), and you will see that they get a 'That sucks' pretty much every month. And they are working pros. But what good is it doing to slam their work? Nowt'. Nada. Nothing. But what good is it doing to you and them when you get constructive? Like a noticable tangent or perspective issue? Whatabout when you provide an image illustrating your point, which the internet allows one to do, so that you can better explain yourself and give them some invaluable information?

I have gotten a heck of alot of constructive criticism along the way, just tons, and I'll be honest, while some of it stung like ripping off a bandaid, it helped me enormously. The important thing to remember is that it is a criticism of your work, not you. When one starts critiquing you for something they do not like, and not your output, then personal attacks go beyond what is reasonable.
I know the comments you are referring to, and I semi agree with you. I think what initially started out as constructive then got personal.
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Gonzogoose
post Mar 1 2012, 07:45 AM
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People can become very passionate for something they care for, like art, and therefore tend to give very forward opinions. In and of itself, that's not a bad thing. We all have opinions and should feel free to share those opinions. If we don't like something, there's nothing wrong with expressing that.

The key here, though, is doing it respectfully and without malice. Sometimes that's hard to do as it conflicts with the passion that sparked the opinion in the first place.

I agree that constructive criticism is a good thing. The debate, though, on whether it benefits one to rag on another who is in the same profession they hope to be, is a touchy one. I feel if you present yourself professionally and keep your criticisms from becoming personal attacks it's somewhat okay to express your dislikes. It's when it becomes personal, malicious and an outright attack that it gravely crosses the line.

And believe me, the way you uphold yourself WILL affect your success in the industry. Whether you think so or not, pros are watching. No one wants to work with someone with a bad attitude.

But to get back to my original point, that shouldn't hinder anyone from being honest. Just temper that honesty with dignity and you'll be fine.


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Greg G.
post Mar 1 2012, 08:13 AM
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On one hand you have Brian Michael Bendis who everybody he works with is doing their best work and is the smartest guy in the universe.

On the other you have Dave Johnson who is a notorious prankster and rascal.

I enjoy both approaches.


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Ron Fortier
post Mar 1 2012, 08:20 AM
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There's this one lady who follows me from one convention to another and constantly ridicules me in front of my fans. I told my wife, is she doesn't stop it, I'm leaving here home. laugh.gif
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Greg G.
post Mar 1 2012, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE (Ron Fortier @ Mar 1 2012, 09:20 AM) *
There's this one lady who follows me from one convention to another and constantly ridicules me in front of my fans. I told my wife, is she doesn't stop it, I'm leaving here home. laugh.gif


D'oh! I hope she doesn't read the boards or you're sleeping on the couch! tongue.gif


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If you don't repeat the actions of your own success
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You gotta know your own formula, your own ingredients
What made you, YOU.
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Ron Fortier
post Mar 1 2012, 02:52 PM
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Won't be the first time. rolleyes.gif
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doombug
post Mar 1 2012, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (Greg G. @ Mar 1 2012, 09:13 AM) *

This post confuses me greatly. If only because I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. lol


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Rayman
post Mar 2 2012, 12:16 AM
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I'd say Dave Johnson is racking up quite the long list of people who won't "get over" his crits. Some may. Some may not. People can be petty though.
Fans love it because who doesn't like to read one pro tearing into another? It's like watching a car accident. You can't look away.
But some of the guys he's ripped may hold a grudge and repay the man in ways he doesn't have a clue about. It's just human nature - they won't "get over it."
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Greg G.
post Mar 2 2012, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (doombug @ Mar 1 2012, 11:55 PM) *
This post confuses me greatly. If only because I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. lol


My point is that at a certain point in your career, using wrestling terms, you can play the face or heel role so long as all your ducks are in a row, you're getting regular work, and making money.

I just watched Painting With Fire again recently, and I'm sure some folks would be put off with Frazetta's level of confidence in his talent. The same goes for Neal Adams who was recently interviewed on the Word Balloon podcast. On one hand you listen to him and you go, "This guy is a little full of himself." Then you step back and remember you're listening to Neal Adams.

At a certain point in your career you earn whatever swagger you have.

Alex Toth also springs to mind.

I guess the point is, if you're going to be a heel; then have the skill to back it up.

As much as people hate Rob Liefeld, he sounds like one of the most enthusiastic and nice guys in the industry in interviews. So that speaks to Rayman's point about being nice and getting a steady flow of work.

QUOTE (Rayman @ Mar 2 2012, 01:16 AM) *
I'd say Dave Johnson is racking up quite the long list of people who won't "get over" his crits. Some may. Some may not. People can be petty though.
Fans love it because who doesn't like to read one pro tearing into another? It's like watching a car accident. You can't look away.
But some of the guys he's ripped may hold a grudge and repay the man in ways he doesn't have a clue about. It's just human nature - they won't "get over it."


No doubt. Listen to the Sidebar Podcast archives with the former Gaijin Studios artists. They don't speak that highly of Dave Johnson the man, but he worked his behind off and he's a top paid commercial artist in the comic industry. You can't argue with results.

Ignoring that - his critiques are spot on.

This entry in particular is brilliant. He was biting down, hard, on Dark Horse's hand as they were paying him.


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You know, life is funny.
If you don't repeat the actions of your own success
You won't be successful
You gotta know your own formula, your own ingredients
What made you, YOU.
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cougar18
post Mar 2 2012, 05:07 PM
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Painting with Fire was an okay documentary, I feel, but it could have been a tad better. For one thing, and I hope I do not offend anyone, but I found Frazetta, who had suffered a stroke, was rather difficult to understand. I feel it would have helped if they had included some form of subtitles.

No meanness intended.

Also, and I know I do not have the skills to back it up, but Neal Adams has sort of let his skills slide. A few recent covers he has done have shown stagnation.
Frazetta showed skill, but also, he showed remarkable drive. I mean, he taught himself to draw and paint with his weak hand after the stroke.
He kept going long after most would have given up. On art and life.
Dick Giordano and John Buscema, as well as Alex Toth, kept their butts productive throughout their entire lives, with Buscema, and Toth passing away at their drawing table. AS does Joe Kubert.
Yet Kubert, and Gene Colan too, in my eyes, is way more exceptional than Adams, yet, even after all these years, and founding a college, there is no arrogance about the guy. It's so strange and to see that. Even Giordano never acted like a guy who was full of himself. But there are up and comers now, who may have the talent to back it up, but are seriously in need of a 'tude adjustment.
I can think of a few, but some have already burned bridges, and some have already singed certain threads. I won't name em though.
Many know who they are already.

What worries me about guys like Rob Liefeld is that his constant lateness, or abandoned projects, should have meant that he would have been pushed out of work and the comic field. There are guys like Igor Kordey, who, for some bizarre reason, can not get work in either DC or MArvel. For some reason, an issue of X-men he drew in a week seems to be the one thing people remember him for, despite his other feats and great work. It is depressing to think that a guy who could get his work in on time, and before time on some occassions, is no longer in the American market. He seems to have gotten blacklisted.
The disturbing thing about that also is how people trying to break into the industry will percieve that. I mean, there are quite a number of guys who cannot put out work more than four times a year, if that, yet constantly recieve work. They constantly keep saying they can do the 11 or 12 issues a month, yet then continue to let people down by missing deadlines again and again.

This post has been edited by cougar18: Mar 2 2012, 05:12 PM
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