Why can't the creative people do better with Wonder Woman? Joss Whedon couldn't deliver a script for the proposed feature film (and spoke in interviews of the weak rogue's gallery for WW), J. Michael did a horrible recent comic, and the recent TV pilot appeared to be a disaster (except for the lady who played Wonder Woman, who I think could have worked in a better pilot by a writer not obsessed with ending every episode with a courtroom battle). I liked the 70's TV show's first season at least (still set in WWII), but I can't think of many of her comics that seem exemplary other than the original William Molton Marston & HG Peter (of which I was lucky to get a oversized printed copy in the 70's) and some of her 60's era adventures. Oh yeah, and the characterization of Wonder Woman in the New Frontier was pretty good too.

In any case, this would be how I would "reinvent" Wonder Woman for today's world: make her the character she was always meant to be!

- make her strong and purposeful, with a much more almost alien outlook (more akin to her original characterization)
- retain her original role of being a strong woman who brings people together with love
- utilize the lasso's truth telling properties much more often. It seems like most writers today just use it for a rope when it should be much more
- keep the bondage element. It was true of Marston and the original work, so that element should always be a piece of the character
- Find a way to retain Wonder Woman's WWII origin, including Steve Trevor. I think this is crucial, and I think this component needs to be there
- find a way for Etta Candy and the Holiday girls to be included

What would be YOUR recipe to bring Wonder Woman to today's audience?

Stop rebooting the character every six months to a year. Pretty simple fix really.

As for weak rogues gallery, even Phil Jimenez spoke to this at Pittsburgh Comicon - one of her primary foes is Ares the God of War. The God of War. A villain that makes more "iconic" foes like Joker, Lex Luthor, and Green Goblin look like a rank amateur.

I would also get a competent artist who could draw an attractive female figure. Wonder Woman was a bit of fantasy material for the amazing William Moulton Marston, so it's being true to the character IMO.

When it comes to Wonder Woman for me it's more important to portray her as a strong woman, someone to look up to. Bringing in the fact that she's an outsider has always been an interesting thing to me. She sees all these women that have such insecurities that are fostered by our society, the body image and self worth issues... they just don't exist on Themyscira. I've always liked that aspect of her, I think to that end they need to not make her look like the average skinny hollywood model type, she needs to have some meat on her bones. She needs to be the kind of woman that young girls will look at and go "She's not a size 2 and look how much she loves herself."

For me Wonder Woman is about the attitude.... I think of the most recent animated movie they did with Keri Russel voicing her. The run in the comics that Gail Simone did was amazing for me, she was every bit the Wonder Woman I remembered and expected her to be, and the whole thing with her taking Nemesis to Themyscira to meet mom and all that. I loved it.

Wonder Woman doesn't need an extensive rogues gallery, to me she doesn't have to have a "I'm beating up a new guy every week" kind of book or show even, she needs to show the interaction between her and the other Amazons.... I really don't think young ladies see enough positive interactions between women. You get crap like Sex in the City or Gossip Girl where they're "frenimies" What the hell is that anyway? Women need to see a strong woman who loves herself, loves her sisters and helps people regardless of who they are not an action packed fight fest with her biggest enemies every week. You can have action without having violence.

True, but WW was actually one of the least attractive female heroes of the Golden Age, compared to, Say, Phantom Lady, Wildfire, War Nurse, Black Venus, etc.

Least attractive may be discounting the norms of the time. Wonder Woman was drawn with the attractive traits of the period in mind.

More skin =/= sex appeal

You're also heavily discounting the bondage and pervasive "deviant" themes in the early works. Marston's Wonder Woman was as ground breaking as Marston himself.

I have to say one thing I find annoying about most Wonder Woman stories I read these days is the presence of a "love interest". Give the character room to breath. Just because we're dealing with a female character doesn't mean we need to fall back on sad story telling tropes. Kingdom Come and New Frontier are some of the best depictions of WW IMO, I believe someone else mentioned this already.

It's interesting. I copied the Marston essay "Why 100,000,000 Americans Read Comics" from the American Scholar (which is one of the few things that Marston wrote about Wonder Woman outside of the comics that I know of, and is quote from in Trina Robbin's superheroine book), and there is a drawing (which I don't think I had seen before) at the beginning of the piece by HG Peter of Wonder Woman breaking three chains: Prejudice, Prudery, and Man's Superiority. That seems to sum up alot of Wonder Woman's mystique.

I think that most folks can draw Wonder Woman sexy, from the beginning to now, but I agree that I like to see very solid and athletic look on her as opposed to model thin.

The Gail Simone run sounds interesting - did that scenario with Nemesis happen just before the ill-fated J. Michael S reboot? I may have to track it down.

There are two villains I remember really liking from the Ye Olden Days - one was the Cheetah, who is just a cool villain, and the other was from the 60's kung-fu run... not sure of the villains name, but she was an evil scientist who had a Darth Vader-esq mask on and was dubbed "The Beauty Hater" on the cover of the comic.

Definately a bondage component in the original run, but at the same time I don't think of it as deviant because I don't think that's how Marston approached it. If it's approached in a deviant manner, I don't think it would quite work out anymore...

And about the love interest: it should always be Steve Trevor imho, but I think that it's hard to portray a positive & healthy love relationship these days. Most want to see good girls with bad boys. Exhibit A:

Buffy and Angel (bad boy with a dark side) = fans loved it
Buffy and Spike (bad boy who tries to commit a horrible crime to Buffy) = fans love it even more
Buffy and Riely (nice solid guy) = fans hated it for the most part

Is this article available online anywhere?



I'm all for this with WW and She-Hulk. Unfortunately there's this shameful perception that any woman with any sort of muscle tone on her is "masculine". Frank Cho did a nice job drawing She-Hulk and Valkyrie. For body type, Wonder Woman should be build like an IFBB Figure competitor:



Here are some examples, pretty ladies in swimwear / fitness clothes warning:

Monica Brant
Jodie Minear
Oksana Grishina

Do note that when they're not getting pumped up for competitions the veins are less prominent. I'll leave that to your google image searching discretion.



The Simone run was interesting, but the story where the villain wove the lasso into her body was a bit weird and felt sort of incomplete.



Oh for sure, it definitely wouldn't fly today. Marston though was a very "progressive" man, so I do not at all rule out that component being there for his own kink. At the very least, Marston's proclivities are the perfect defense for a "sexy" Wonder Woman. Note I'm still speaking to a sexy athletic Wonder Woman.



But does WW really need a love interest? I feel it's forced in the comics because she's a woman. We're talking about the industry that dissolved Spiderman's marriage "because they couldn't tell the stories they wanted to". Which honestly just translates to "This character will never grow and change".

I don't feel like the male characters I'm reading have their relationships forced on them.

A friend and I were discussing our real world war turmoil and musing over alternatives to bombing runs and drone fighters last night. One solution posed was education, and while that's a can of worms to touch on - I think it could make for interesting stories and setting in which Wonder Woman, the emissary of peace from her home land could come into play.

At the very least, I think it's more important that the emphasis on "World Citizen" be placed more upon Wonder Woman than Superman given her origins.

All this typing reminds me that I want to check out that Wonder Woman Encyclopedia.

Let's get to those questions/observations

- there is no free net version of Marston's essay online, but many libraries may have access to a database that has the American Scholar in it. My library had a print copy, so I got lucky!

- nice examples of acceptable body-types for Wonder Woman. I'd also propose Jennifer Widerstrom, who played "Phoenix" on the most recent American Gladiators.

- I think the thing is not to look at Marston's outlook as kinky, because I think he thought of it as the natural order of things as opposed to a kinky bit of naughtiness. His kids (brought up mostly by his wife and their mutual girlfriend after Marston's early death) all emphasize the loving normalcy of their relationship. I also think it's interesting that at least one other prominent comics writer had a long term wife and they shared a relationship with a third woman - the great Alan Moore during his 80's heyday! Coincidence?

- I don't know that WW needs to marry ol' Steve Trevor, just that he should be her main squeeze, like Lois Lane to Superman.

The villainess with the darth vader mask was Dr. Poison, IIRC.

Love interests aren't due to her being a woman, but it's a portion of story telling that typically does help appeal more to female readers. Let's be honest, a female superhero like WW is going to be a role model for female readers and NEEDS that to be successful. The main comic demographic is male readers, who are going to balk at Wonder Woman as a concept (generalizing, of course) because they can't relate to the Amazonian princess strong woman thing. Gotta make this character appeal to women more.



Carlie Cooper. 'nuff said.




Gosh that's a cool thought, and would be great to see a WW/Supes storyline dealing with their different outlooks and how it impacts how they handle a tricky situation because of that.

That just strikes me as re-inforcing generic gender roles, which we as a society claim to have moved past.

I defer to the female members of the board. Do you ladies feel WW needs a love interest to appeal to you?



Had to google that reference. I stopped reading Spiderman before the clone saga back in the 90's, around the time symbiotes became all the rage and there were a dozen or so running around being piss poor Venom / Carnage variants. Haven't gone back. Even the amazing Humberto Ramos, Reilly Brown, and Stefano Caselli on art chores cannot salvage my interest for the character. Especially the villains. What the hell happened to them? They're terrible now and awful redesigns.

Let's not forget the hissy fit Marvel had when Erik Larsen tried to make Doc Ock more competent, and did a pretty good job from what I recall, back in the 90's before they slapped him back into line.

More than that, all of Kyle Rayner's girlfriends.

It may be ultra(un)PC in modern femininity, but... Here's what I would do.

I have a 4 year old girl and my girlfriend has a 5 year old girl, and across that demographic one thing shines through - they like princesses, magic, and a sense of (pun) WONDER! Sounds about right for the base.

Fast forward to a teenager. Keep the innocence and wonder, add a dash of angst and doubt, and maybe some self loathing.

Have those two sides struggle for dominance, while at the same time forcing Wonder Woman to learn to be a woman in the modern world - an alien world I remind you - and show how there will be many Oprahs, and Ellens, and Michelles, and Jennas, and Pinks, and Britneys, and Barbaras, and... and... all of them are telling her what it means (?) to be a woman.

To heck with a love interest. It's hard enough being a self.

But of course, I'm a guy, and I might be looking at this all wrong.

No, I'm with you on this one. In fact, you've got a dinger of a comic all on it's own. Doesn't have to be a Wonder Woman. Just an alien... not evena princess. Well-loved and spoiled would fit the bill. But not spoiled in that bratty way, says the woman who spoils her only daughter while knocking manners into her head at the same time.

I think if you're trying to bring in new readers, yeah, it's probably a pretty important thing.

Take a look at what most "modern women" are reading right now. Cosmo, Twilight *vomit* and romance novels. Things that are all about "successful relationships" (supposedly). I think it does turn into an important point when you get into her taking a look at the "role models" we women have now, the constant serial monogamy, the diets, the drugs, the shows, the CLOTHES for gods sake... the fact that little girls under 10 want to look like and dress like little hookers. *ugh*

Yeah, all of this is going to be a huge thing. For me it IS pretty important to show that she can, as an outsider, come into this world and still fit in without giving up the ideals that make her an Amazon. That she doesn't have to give up her identity to be happy in this society and to have a successful relationship.

She needs to have someone who's there to back her up because for every bit that she's indestructible she's weak as well. I think that's another thing they don't always show about her. She's got blind spots and it's not just like Superman's Kryptonite. Having to choose between her world and this one, having to choose her friends or her duty... there's a lot of stories that kind of ignore that. Which is probably why I liked the Gail Simone stuff, she was strong and everything I usually associate with Wonder Woman, but she was also a woman too.

So yeah, to me the relationship is an important thing. She needs to have a good relationship not just with Steve or whoever they choose, but with Etta too. There don't seem to be enough good role models for good working female friendships out there either. All this girls hating on girls on TV kinda makes me sick the frequency it's cropping up.

Well the good news is that's a strong argument to not change the existing WW design! <= Click here for the rimshot.



The only frame of reference for girl comics I have to go on is Peach Girl from Tokyo Pop. If you want to see a teenage girl Dr. Doom, go read Peach Girl! It's really quite remarkably good.

However this is WW we're talking about and teen drama may not really translate well, even if the sentiment is similar and if Peach Girl touched on some pretty twisted stuff.

I think perhaps they should play Steve more like he was in the Linda Carter series and the animated movie. Very confident in himself, but WW is more amused by his chest thumping and his general incompetence.

At the very least make WW his ever pursued object of desire, and since she's WW and from Paradise Island she's just generally like - "Well that's nice, time to spread my message of peace if you don't mind."

Maybe introduce another male love interest who competes with Steve, and give me some interesting drama in WW finding aspects of both appealing; but neither are really her type. It worked so well in Peach Girl (made by a woman, for young women) and as a guy - you're always wondering if that lady is interested in you or your friend. So it could engage male readers on that level when the action is not happening.

To trot out the old saying, "Women want to be her, men want to be with her."

I think Palmiotti and company did a great job on Power Girl. WW needs that sort of team. Not that tone, but someone that will treat the character with a degree of respect and sincerity.

Power Girl by Conner, Palmiotti and Grey = One of the best runs in modern mainstream superheroes. I liked it so much that I couldn't bear to read the next team, I'd like to pretend that the Amanda Conner run is all there is. I also wish they could have kept the team together and let them do a new 4 issue miniseries every year or two, so that their characterization of Power Girl became the only one.

Wonder Woman, along with Hawkman, Aquaman, Captain Marvel and the Legion of Super-Heroes are constant problems for DC. Their fans insist that they're the BEST CHARACTERS EVER but they have a really hard time making the characters connect to a mainstream audience. Some of them may be salvaged by this relaunch--bringing in fresh eyes that give the characters a more objective look than the longtime fans have done--but I think Captain Marvel especially has the problem that if you modernize him, it's Simply Not Cap...and if you don't, then the potential audience for the character isn't big enough to support a title.